Ben Shapiro David Pakman Debate

For quite a while people have been clamoring for David Pakman and Ben Shapiro to debate in some formal setting. The former being considered one of the up and coming figures of the left and the latter being a similar version of the Pakman on the right (known for their youth and rationalist take on subjects), the two are likely destined for more interchanges in the future. However the two have already collided at least once in the past on the issue of Gun Control. Now some of the debate centers on the “commas” in the second amendment, as we discussed here, but the interchange ended up being fairly amiable and productive. Therefore it’s a little odd to classify this as a debate when it was more of a discussion, but we’ve chosen to file it as a debate nonetheless.

Combatants: Ben Shapiro vs David Pakman

Issue: Gun Control

Date: January 17, 2013

Venue: Remote, David Pakman Show

Style: Interview

Outcome: Disputed

Pakman begins with a welcome and seemingly generous introduction, praising Ben for his performance against Piers Morgan in the famous Ben Shapiro vs Piers Morgan debate. If nothing else, this debate proved useful because it allowed the exploration and debate of some of the secondary issues that underly the gun control debate.

Shapiro: Big Cities Are Responsible For Gun Violence

Ben puts his first flag in the ground in the debate after him and Pakman agree that gun violence is a problem fairly unique to America, even though many countries (such as Switzerland) have just as many guns per person. Shapiro then argued that it’s not “all of America” (as New Hampshire and Vermont do not have a great deal of gun violence) but cities in particular. Here though, Ben leaves the door open for local regulations on gun ownership in densely populated areas “it’s possible that there’s a different solution for Chicago as there is for Montana.”

FactCheck: traditionally the broad marker of violence in general is population density. The more people there are that are close in proximity the more likely that violence (or conflict) is going to come about. Combining that with the amount of guns in the U.S. and one sees how we arrive at the situation we are in. Alright let’s move on.

Pakman and Shapiro Agree: Assault Rifle Bans are not the solution

Pakman Gets a Concession: After arguing that delays in background checks of a couple of weeks may be too long for someone that really needs a gun, Pakman successfully pushed back arguing “if you need a gun for personal protection, you really should be in touch with law enforcement.” A sentiment which Shapiro largely agreed with.

Ben and David Trade Blows on Relevance of the Founding Fathers

Alas, Ben and David spend the last quality section of the brief debate discussing the relevance of the second ammendment more than two hundred years after it was written. It is Pakman’s view that the world was very much different than the one we currently live in and that should be taken into consideration when talking about the value of the opinions of the founding fathers on the second ammendment. Conversely, Ben argues that the fundamental nature of the second ammendment is about human nature and is therefore applicable to modern day.

 This is typically where the debate goes off the rails as it we get into appeals to intution, however the two did a decent job at addressing each other’s points. Jump to 13:00 minutes in and we’ll let you be the judge of who won the interchange but, to Pakman’s credit, he did seem to get a fair amount of concessions out of the vaunted conservative debater. 

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